Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by MaisieHoops of *HulaHoopers.ca* on September 24, 2010 at 6:14pm

Bottom line is charge what you want and the market will determine what a fair value is.

I keep rewriting my post... hmm....

Here's a small story. I charge a lot more than other local hoop makers (I live down the road from you). But I know my hoops are pretty darn awesome, I know how much money I could be making doing other things, so I charge the amount I need to make it worth my while... this will be different for every person.

A few months back another local hoop maker came to my market stall. She charged about half the price of my hoops. But bottom line, she was willing to do the work for that price and she also used much cheaper material than I used. I held my head up high and continued offering my hoops for the price I always did. Fast forward two months and she is no longer making hoops.

At the end of the day, if people are only charging marginally more than what it costs to make them, they will burn out. If a person is spending an hour to make a hoop and only makes $5 for their efforts, they won't continue to produce.

I sell my hoops online, in person and via a retail outlet. Some people balk at my prices, but most recognize the quality. If someone wants to pay less, I show them a beater hoop and offer them that at a reduced rate.

Hold our head up high! You know you are worth it. If people want to offer cheap/cheaper hoops, let them do it. Chances are that when the person that purchased a hoop wants to purchase a second, they won't be able to find the person. And guess what, the customers that purchased from you and got a quality product, will spread the word and purchase from you again. Don't stress about the people that are just there to bring you down... don't question your worth. =)

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Permalink Reply by SaFire* on September 24, 2010 at 9:25pm

"At the end of the day, if people are only charging marginally more than what it costs to make them, they will burn out."

I think the same can be said for performing AND teaching. If people are undercutting prices, aren't serious about it as a business and aren't will to invest time, wait a few months and they will no longer be offering classes, their MySpace performance site will no longer be active and they'll be on to the next thing.

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Permalink Reply by Snarfy on September 24, 2010 at 6:40pm

Hmm. I got mine from a local girl at the farmers market I bought my hoop for 20 bucks, and she sells the small hoops for 10. Mine has..shiny tape, gaffers tape, and electrical tape, and it has water in it.

A girl on craigslist is selling collapsible for 25, and she sells a "circus set" of a dozen random sizes for 80 - http://salem.craigslist.org/for/1948773442.html

I think part of this has to do with our proximity to kinda "big" hooping towns, Portland and Euegene Oregon, where everyone and their mothers makes and sells hoola hoops. I have only seen like 2 hoops in my life, and I can't tell the difference between them. I am sure as I grow in my skill and try different hoops, I will find the difference, but to a hooping noob, it makes no difference.

It is all supply and demand. It happens in the knitting world too. Someone will see that a yarn dyer/hat maker/whatever can sell their product with a very fat profit, thinks, "They, this is easy money!" and they will start doing it too. And so will dozens of others, once they find out how "easy" it is to knit a hat, dye some yarn, make a hoop, sew an apron..whatever. There used to be a few sellers on Etsy selling hand dyed yarns, and now there are hundreds. It is especially hard with everyone losing their jobs. They need to find a way to make money, so they look for a niche on the internet and try to fill it.

Well, I started rambling, but the point was, it isn't just in the hoopverse, it is everywhere handmade.

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Permalink Reply by SaFire* on September 24, 2010 at 9:26pm

"Someone will see that a yarn dyer/hat maker/whatever can sell their product with a very fat profit, thinks, "They, this is easy money!"

So true! How many people have you seen making mini top hats in the last few years!

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Permalink Reply by Snarfy on September 25, 2010 at 12:24am

About a bajillion. And the crafty person in me went "Hey...I bet I could make.... wait... nevermind. I don't even wear little top hats!"

However, I do have a pattern for a knitted top hat that I have been meaning to try...

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Permalink Reply by Sunshine Designs on September 24, 2010 at 7:15pm

Thank you so much for posting this. This is originally where I wanted to post but wasn't sure if it was right.

Thank you for helping everyone see the value of what we sellers do.

I work so hard to make sure my hoops are perfect, to make sure my customers are happy, and to make sure everyone who needs a hoop has an option there for them. Not everyone can afford a super special hoop, so I pride myself on making something an option for them.

I litterly work my ass off to keep afloat and I'm not going down without a fight and I'm not going to lower my prices anymore.

I guess if someone else doesn't want to make any money and wants to be greedy about sales, let them. I know my product is worth spending the money on. I deserve it, and those who are slashing prices deserve it too.

I have ended most of my etsy listings and I'm completely re-do my store in promoting in a way that doesn't put other stores down, but enhances the beauty of what I have to offer.

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Permalink Reply by Shekinah on September 25, 2010 at 12:37am

After I had read Sunshine's journal entry and responded, I went on etsy to see what is being offered for such low prices. I have only been hooping a few months, and I could already see the difference in quality between the higher end ones and the cheaper ones. When I was a newbie, I was told to just tape my hoops with electrical tape, so that's what I did, and most of my learning has been with that. However, just even in making the switch to hockey tape - holy wow - did that ever make a difference, and now I can hoop with clothes on, haha. So when I consider purchasing a quality hoop from a hoop maker, I wouldn't want one all taped in vinyl, and really, that's what the cheaper hoops are being taped with. When I was looking, the majority of the cheaper hoops were just regular old tape. Someone just starting to hoop will see the vinyl for $15 and say hey, great deal, I'll get that! But then give them time, and they will get immersed into looking up information, maybe coming into a hoop community, etc and they will be crawling to the more expensive hoops because they will have gaffers and sparkles.

Those of you who are making the higher quality hoops and breathing life and love into them, these cheap hoops are not your market! Please don't feel like you have to compete with them to survive. It's like when someone tells you, "well I can just get a hoop at Walmart for $5..." Do you feel the need to compete with a $5 Walmart hoop? No, because there's no comparison. It's the same with these people slashing. They are not making the same product you are. They're making the knock off version, and you're the brand name. People still pay and ENJOY paying more for a well crafted item that will hold up to wear and tear. Not everyone. But not everyone needs to buy from you either.

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Permalink Reply by Dayna on September 25, 2010 at 9:01am

I am a few months in (okay, two months) and a local hoop maker was the only one I can find, who used vinyl and (cringe) duct tape. She charged $25 directly from her, and while her taping job was AMAZING for the tape she used... well, you know. Before getting too far into hooping I wasn't aware of any difference at all. All I knew was that there were awesome people doing crazy things with a hoop and I needed to be a part of it. I am thankful to her because without her I may not have ever gotten started.

As people get drawn into the fold as newbies like I am, we aren't aware of the quality difference. Having seen other hoops now and having hooped using MUCH more beautiful and well-crafted hoops, I know there is a difference. Don't be deterred by people who are cheap. If they want a $5 hoop from Walmart or another seller that will put no love, time or effort into it, then they will get what they pay for. In the meantime, you will build up a local appetite for quality hoops instead of cheap imitations.

As starters for my friends and I, I began learning how to tape and sold the hoops to them for pretty cheap (about ten bucks, twenty for more colors) so I could buy in bulk and get better at taping. I would never DREAM of selling these at a festival or publicly unless I was no-buts-about-it awesome. If I were to ever make this a small business, I would be on exactly the same page you are.

So keep your chin up!

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Permalink Reply by Sheena Machina on September 26, 2010 at 1:42pm

I do freelance web design on top of my full-time job - I have about 6-7 years experience doing so (and a degree + technical diploma). I charge a rate that is in generally in line with my experience and education - which ends up often being a rate that potential clients flip out over. After all, they can log into elance.com and contract out someone in India to do web design for dollars an hour... or they can recruit some tech-school college kids to do it for $10-$15 per hour. And believe me, these clients almost ALWAYS make sure to tell me this, before rejecting my rates/proposals and scurrying off to hire their neighbor's high-school age son who "knows Dreamweaver" to create their website for $8/hour...

The thing is, though, I can't COUNT the number of times these same people have come back to me, usually months later, and begged me to take them on as clients to maintain or fix up the shoddy websites that they ended up with - in fact, ALL of the current projects I'm working on right now are re-designs or re-jigging of totally crap websites that were developed for bottom-of-the-barrel rates. I charge these people my normal rate, and the funny thing is, they soon realize that even though neighbor boy Jimmy can code for $8 an hour, I can do in 30 minutes what takes him 4 hours - and magically, my rates start to look NOT BAD.

I feel like this kind of scenario is the same with many disciplines that require technical skill and some form or artistry or artistic eye. Including hoop-making! A lot of people have a hard time seeing value in these areas - until they either try it themselves, or have it done poorly, and then magically realize that HEY, there is something to be said for actual skill (and time, and effort)! In my experience - they'll often come around, though there always seem to be a few hard-asses who are all about lowest price, no matter what (but honestly, you don't want these people as clients or buyers since they're NEVER going to be happy with anything you create for them).

Personally, I think your hoops are beautiful and the prices are more than reasonable (especially after having attempted to make a hoop, myself - haha!). I think that the quality of them will speak for itself, and that some people who previously bought cheapo hoops will soon learn that they could have spent an extra couple bucks for something a lot nicer, that will last longer. Do not lower the prices! Even if it's depressing to see people offering $5-$15 hoops - like everyone else on this thread said, prices that low really aren't sustainable!

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Permalink Reply by SaFire* on September 26, 2010 at 2:00pm

Very well said! Web design and amateur photography are really great examples.

p.s. *cringe* Dreamweaver. It makes me shutter the time and energy I put into trying to learn that program when I could have just been learning more code.

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Permalink Reply by Becca ~Geannie~ Jean on September 26, 2010 at 1:58pm

Have you thought about useing recycled material (to drop prices a little or make more of a profit?)? Mainly tubing from old farms? I guess this is easyer for some, I live in New England and there are many small town family farmers and I have scored a bunch of old tubing perfic for hoop making.

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Permalink Reply by Sunshine Designs on September 26, 2010 at 4:45pm

it's not so much material prices.

My tubing is a little over $20 for the heavy stuff and $12-14 for the lighter stuff (100 ft rolls) and my tape is the same as the leading tape company, but my stuff is a lot cheaper since i get it from a different source. I can afford to compete with these people and still make a great profit. It's my time I want paid for. I'm tired of being up all night...and all day making hoops and not getting paid for a skill I have worked 5 years to perfect!
I also spend a great deal of time with my customers, i keep in contact with them, offer help with learning, suggesting them to hoopcity, where to find classes in their area and so forth.
So that is what I want paid for!

Great suggestion on the scrap tubing. I live in farm country...I should really check into that as i would use the materials wheras they get thrown away!

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